Both All Ireland winners as player and manager. Both back seeking to reinvent the wheel and construct new winning models in a world turned to red and white. You don't really need us to tell you their names, do you?

Just as there are obvious parallels between Babs Keating and Brian Cody, there are parallels too between Keating's first stint in the Tipperary hotseat and his second coming. Fifteen years had elapsed since the second of his two All Ireland triumphs as a player (he was injured for the 1965 final) when he took over as Tipperary boss first time around. Fourteen years had elapsed since the second of his two All Ireland titles as a manager when he returned a few months ago. A name that stilled the childish play of two generations of young Tipp hurlers. The moment he first walked into the dressing room, Nicky English was struck by the incredible air of confidence about the man. "That's exactly it, " agrees Eamon Corcoran. "He has a presence that shouts to the players. He's done it all as player and manager. He's someone you look up to."

Babs was 42 years of age when Michael Lowry, the chairman of the Tipperary county board, rang him at home in Castleknock one August day in 1986. He came, he saw, he put blazers on backs and self-esteem in hearts. The task of building up the confidence of his new charges isn't the same priority it was then; 2001 was five years ago, not 15, and a number of his troops own All Ireland senior medals where none did in 1986.

After a slate of challenge matches in November, training began in earnest in December, with Brian Murray, a former American collegiate athlete from Templederry, overseeing the physical work in Dr Morris Park. Off the field, the clouds of glory Babs continues to trail helped yield a fine turnout for a fund-raising dinner held in the Dundrum House Hotel recently.

In between he sparked an unnecessary tiff with the local media by resurrecting criticism made of him in the Tipperary Star and Clonmel's The Nationalist during his previous tenure, but his warmth and chattiness at a meet-and-greet night for the press in the Anner Hotel a fortnight ago appears to have healed the rift.

Last Sunday in Limerick?

Tus measartha, a lot of obair to do yet. It was a better result than it was a performance.

The manager wasn't wrong when he asserted that a draw in the circumstances was nearly as good as a win.

Conor O'Mahony was steady at centre-back but the left side of the defence failed to impress. Midfield struggled but Seamus Butler was bright and busy up front. Redser O'Grady, Tipp's biggest and most important 'if ' in 2006, was beaten by Ollie Moran for much of the hour but set up one goal and scored the other.

One or two may have played themselves off the team but, franking the good impression he'd made against Clare in a recent charity match in Killaloe, Damien McGrath, a nephew of Martin McGrath of 1987 All Ireland semi-final fame (now there's a name with resonance for Babs), played himself on.

So it goes. Swings and roundabouts. Babs has ridden them more often than most. "He's very straight, " says Corcoran, who lined out in the under-16 match at the Gaelic Grounds the afternoon the county won their fifth Munster title on Keating's watch. "He's spoken to everyone individually, obviously, and told us what he expects from us."

One thing he can't expect is an innate belief that tomorrow belongs to them. Of the 15 Babs sent out against Antrim on 3 September 1989, 11 were All Ireland underage medallists or would be before the month was out. Of the 15 he'll send out against Limerick on 14 May this year, no more than two . . . Paul Kelly and John Carroll, should they make the lineup . . . are All Ireland underage medallists. In the eight seasons prior to Michael Lowry's phone call, Tipp had won six All Ireland minor and under21 titles. In the eight seasons prior to Keating's reincarnation, they won none. This time around, he's playing with a deck short on trump cards.

But needs must. And probably will, as they did two decades ago when Babs, Donie Nealon and Theo English had the imagination to make a corner-forward out of a discarded corner-back called Pat Fox, the nous to see that Fox and English needed a big man to play off, the nerve to try Bobby Ryan there as a precursor to Cormac Bonnar. How long his sheer charisma will guarantee him a period of grace other managers wouldn't be afforded is a moot point. But unquestionably, as current county chairman John Costigan contends, the revenant has been welcomed with open arms.

"Since he came back he has worked non-stop to improve things, " Costigan adds. "He's approached the job with the energy of a 35-year-old. He's a great front man to have. Larger than life. There's only one Babs. Like him or hate him, he's there."

A quote equally applicable to Brian Cody, whose longevity in the job has served to make him as much the face of Kilkenny hurling as DJ Carey or Henry Shefflin. "In addition to his record, which is outstandingly successful, and his managerial skills, Brian represents Kilkenny in the public arena in a very positive light, " offers Ned Quinn, the county chairman. "Putting it all together with his achievements as a player, his overall contribution to Kilkenny hurling is without parallel."

Successfully building a third distinct McCarthy Cup-winning team would be an accomplishment similarly without parallel. Cody has made it publicly known he's in the throes of rebuilding, to which end his long-time team trainer and confidant Mick O'Flynn has been replaced by Noel Richardson, a former international athlete. Of the fullback line gutted by Galway, Michael Kavanagh has been given a change of grass at midfield and James Ryall finally dispatched to the bench. But the defensive problems remain; of Laois's tally of 1-13 at Nowlan Park last Sunday, 08 . . . more than half their scores . . . came from frees. Viewed in this light, last September's All Ireland under-21 final defeat was a disappointment less because Kilkenny's three-in-arow bid failed at the death, more because the county's coming young defenders were shown to be traditional standup backs vulnerable to pace . . .

in other words, obsolete in a world where Cork have rewritten the rules of engagement.

On the bright side, Kilkenny hit 1-26 against Laois, the paucity of the visitors' challenge notwithstanding. In doing so they produced the kind of constructive attacking play they haven't shown for ages, moving the ball with care instead of trying to go through the opposition for a short cut. In the continuing absence of their one-man fire brigade, the floor is open for Cha Fitzpatrick and the two All Ireland minor-winning captains, Michael Rice and Richie Power, to become men.

Needless to say, the manager will be his usual, driven self when Henry Shefflin does return at the end of March. "I don't know how Brian does it, " says Shefflin. "His determination is incredible, year after year. He's as keen as he was back in 1999. In fact, his determination has probably increased, if anything."

Two managers. Two living legends. Two new models still on the drawing board.

NATIONAL HURLING LEAGUE DIVISION 1B TIPPERARY v KILKENNY Semple Stadium, 2.30 Live, TG4, 2.15