And it's why now, of all times, you don't want to sit down with him. There's just too much to know. Flying home from New York to play with Knockmore. The move to Na Fianna in Dublin. The All Star at 19 way back in 1993. The hugely promising inter-county future that so quickly became a vast and barren inter-county past. The return.

But all that seems suddenly irrelevant. There's only one thing people want to know.

What. . . ?

"You want to know what happened I suppose? It was an absolute disaster. We didn't envisage that was the way that the game was actually going to turn out. The first 10 minutes was when all the damage was done. We just didn't get out of the blocks. We didn't compete with them physically which was absolutely vital and that was down to a number of factors.

I'll get to them. I haven't really talked about it to anyone since but, thinking back, it was worse than a nightmare.

I've honestly had quite a few sleepless nights since."

None of that could have been foreseen back in January. You see, Kevin O'Neill thought they'd win it. It wasn't a case of him convincing himself either. He just had to look around and the others did that for him. When Mickey Moran asked would he join the panel after an absence under John Maughan, it's why he said yes. There was the experience and class and know-how to make Mayo the best. It came from the senior guys who'd lost it. It came from the under-21s who'd won it. It came from the Ballinas and Crossmolinas who were a guiding light for those at the next level up. And it came from a new management that were in tune with the needs and desires of the players.

"I found Mickey very refreshing, a great attitude towards training. Was willing to give people an opportunity as well. It wasn't down to personalities or clubs or anything else, it was down to football.

"The players had a lot to do with it too. A lot of us were willing to look it as a partnership, both Mickey and the management and the players.

I think that's very important in any organisation, that you have everybody working in the one direction. Everybody had their speak and everybody listened."

But in the changing room last week, there was nothing to listen to. Dead silence. Did that really happen? What became of the Mayo that faced Dublin? All year they'd been plucky and getting by but in getting through that semi-final they'd suggested this was a different Mayo. One that wouldn't fail. One that would fight and win. It was surely set to happen.

"You know, I think the opening minutes of the second half of that game [when Dublin raced into a seven-point lead within minutes] was the first real sign that we were prone to lapses. Maybe the writing was on the wall at that moment. That showed what could happen because I always said that if Kerry had got some of the chances that Dublin got that day, they would have taken them and the game would have been gone. We'd have been finished and there would have been no comebacks. But you can only see that now because right up to the final we thought we had a team capable of winning it all. And I guess people will find that a little strange, that at that level a team can be prone to lapses but it's hard to know why. I think it's a combination of things. A combination of concentration and mental approach."

And so to the game. What had worked all year collapsed around them. Quickly too.

When a general was needed on the line, there was no call to the battlefield. Things deteriorated, untouched. Everything they had worked so hard for was just let go without a struggle.

"Everything was very low key and relaxed in the buildup. We were mature and cool, it was another game that demanded the same type of preparation. It was no different to, say, the Dublin game for instance. There was nobody roaring or shouting, instead there was a realisation that everyone individually would prepare themselves in a manner similar to previous games. And the gameplan was similar to all our previous games as well. Quick movement and the stuff we'd talked about all year. Why change now? That's what we were going to stick to and we believed that was the gameplan to beat them.

But the idea of beating Kerry in a shoot-out, of getting the better of them in a open game of football, wasn't that suicide?

"We had that but we needed more. At that level you have to be absolutely ruthless. It's no place for nice guys and we weren't ruthless enough in that first 10 minutes. That was the most disappointing aspect. Mayo teams have been there before and we should have known better. We should have known it was going to be helter-skelter in the first couple of minutes but we weren't prepared to go in there and do that kind of stuff and be cynical. And at the same time we had the footballers to beat them in a shoot-out but it was the less pretty side of things that we missed in the first 10 minutes.

More long term, certainly Mayo can win an All Ireland, but being so nice? Maybe not.

When we look at the great players over the last 10 years, the Kieran McGeeneys, the Peter Canavans, the Anthony Tohills, they had a ruthless, ruthless streak and that helped to make them great. If it was cynical so be it and it's not nice to say, but it's something that Mayo will have to get a little more accustomed to."

But when it didn't go well initially was there not a Plan B to fall back to?

"I think there is always a Plan B. As players on the pitch we should be mature enough to switch that around ourselves."

Is that not what a manager is there for, to have his players prepared for every eventuality?

"Look, I've huge admiration for that management team and they tried different things like moving Barry Moran in at full forward. But you are probably right. I guess on the field though, we felt we were good enough to beat them and if needed be, there wouldn't be a problem if it came to changing things ourselves. But we tried too hard to win pretty."

It was obvious that was never going to happen but by the break they could still believe the winning part.

Going in at half-time they must have been the happier.

O'Neill goaled twice and set up Pat Harte for another. Two came in the closing minutes and somehow the game wasn't over.

"I always believed when we got a couple of goals it was there. The chance was there and going in so little down was a bonus, we could have been 20 points down. I thought if we got the chances we'd take them, if we got enough ball. But we needed a platform, and that wasn't there. Ball was very scarce. I just felt we had to start getting more possession and try and somehow turn the screw.

When that didn't materialise early in the second half, it was gone. The life left us and it's very frustrating, especially for the likes of myself who won't get too many more chances if any at all."

Then there were the substitutions. Long before the end, Billy Joe Padden and O'Neill found themselves pulled ashore. They were posing the few solutions yet were treated as the problems. Padden had been the one collecting the little snippets of possession Mayo so rarely enjoyed. O'Neill had two goals on a day when his teams' tally was low and supply nearing non-existent.

"I was disappointed to be taken off. I felt I had a lot more to contribute and I would have liked to be moved out the field and had a lot more influence on winning ball and getting it into the likes of Conor Mortimer. It didn't work out but I've no qualms with anyone.

The management wanted to do that and as I said I have the utmost respect for them.

They felt it would be best and that's their call and I can't complain. They had looked at the possibility of me coming back on again for the last 10 minutes but by then Peader Gardiner had got injured and that couldn't happen. But to be honest, I was just sitting there after I came off and my mind was in a buzz looking at what had happened. It was demoralising and depressing.

I didn't want to be there. I just wanted to go into the dressing room, get my bag, get out of there, go home and forget about it. It may look to you that I'm taking it well but I keep myself to myself but I can assure you it's hurting.

"I'm not alone either. The guys were so down. Naturally. I think if they could have gone out the door without meeting anyone, most would have preferred to do that. And often that's the simplest answer. To bury your head and close the door but a lot of guys showed huge character in coming out and meeting the supporters afterwards and that was extremely difficult."

Just one more disappointment. "Oh well, life goes on, " he says as he heads off for a club game with Na Fianna.

Of course it does. Sure if it didn't there there wouldn't have been a day's work done in Mayo since 1951.