"I don't see anything strange in the situation at all, " Dunne asserts. "And the thing is, all the managers who came did their best. Most of them were very good. A couple were top-class. Maybe some of them felt our discipline wasn't good enough, our spirit wasn't good enough, our conviction wasn't strong enough. Actually, rather than us talking about them, I'd love to hear what they thought of us."

Hear what the roll call of his former club coaches thought of Toomevara? Now Dunne can. Presenting, in no particular order, some of Pat Herbert's predecessors as Toome coach talking about their time with the club.

"Absolutely brilliant, " says Michael Conneely, who coached the Greyhounds to county success in 2003.

"Lovely people. I had a great time. Even their supporters were fanatical. I used find it hard to get away from the supporters after training.

They always wanted to talk hurling."

"A very strong parochial identity and a very keen sense of representing their parish, " says Sean Hehir, who led them to Munster glory two years ago. "And considerable strength in depth. Hurlers who'd be considered exceptional in most other clubs were no more than very good hurlers in Toomevara."

"They're unique, " says Tom Ryan, coach of the 1998-99 county-winning outfit. "They might have had more outside coaches than I've had hot dinners, but they have their own way of doing things and are very slow to change to other methods. The place is so full of experts that you'd wonder why they go for outside coaches. But there's definitely an aura about them."

"Most of us who've grown up with a club regard hurling as important, " says Sean Stack, who's had two spells at the helm. "In Toomevara, it's not just important . . . it's nearly everything to a huge number of households."

Conneely. Hehir. Ryan.

Stack. Not forgetting Pad Joe Whelahan, the original of the species. Appointing Pad Joe, their first outside trainer in modern times, was the really big step. When he landed in Toomevara in 1991, he arrived at a club boasting plenty of promising youngsters, plenty of recent underage titles but no county silverware since 1960. In his first season, he brought them to a divisional title. In his second season, he brought them to the Dan Breen Cup. The big step had led to fortune. After that, there was rarely a need to re-cross the Rubicon.

The depth of the club's playing resources may have made matters more conducive to outside managers, according to Roger Ryan, one of Pat Herbert's selectors today. For the past 12 years or so, Ryan points out, Toomevara have had strong panels, with 18 or 19 players of generally equal ability vying for places. An illustration. The team listed in this year's county final pro-