FORGET pay and conditions, the current dispute between unions at the ESB and the government over the recent energy white paper is solely about ideology, according to the ATGWU's regional organiser for the ESB, Brendan Ogle.

The semi-state company's six unions are particularly opposed to the proposal to transfer the state's electricity transmission network, which is currently owned by the ESB, to a new semi-state company, Eirgrid, within 18 months. Eirgrid currently manages the network but does not own it.

"To me, the white paper is about the breakup of the ESB. The minister should come clean. It's clearly the start of it. There's four bits and he's just taken one. From our point of view, that can only be ideological. There is no business case for breaking up the ESB, " he says.

The dispute represents something of a second coming for Ogle, who first came to prominence as one of the leaders of the Irish Locomotive Drivers Association (ILDA) during a bitter rail dispute, which crippled rail services for three months in 2000.

Initially, Ogle, a train driver from Dundalk who was based at Athlone, played a background role in ILDA but he suddenly found himself thrust into the spotlight.

"We were all in the room in the Aisling Hotel near Heuston station one day and the media were outside and we asked ourselves who was going to go out to answer their questions, " he recalls.

"They asked, 'Brendan, would you do it?' and I accepted, never anticipating where it would go or the dispute that would be entered into eventually, never anticipating how the media operated."

ILDA ultimately failed to achieve its aims, or even secure recognition from Iarnrod Eireann, but Ogle secured his place as a prominent figure in Irish industrial relations, who continues to divide opinion in the trade union movement to this day.

For some, he is one of the last 'true' trade unionists, who is prepared to passionately advocate his members' point of view without fear or favour, even if it brings him into dispute with other unions. During one dispute in 2005, he even accused another ESB union, the TEEU, of backing the use of "blackleg labour".

For others, particularly those in the business world, he is a dangerous throwback to the pre-partnership era when unions obstinately blocked all forms of industrial progress and whose main supporters outside his union are the Socialist Workers Party and the readers of Sinn Fein's newspaper An Phoblacht, which he recently penned an article for.

Ogle disputes this form of label, stating that "it's the archetypal neo-conservative reaction to any debate that they're wrong on.

Don't have the debate. Stick somebody in a box, stick a label on them and we don't have to discuss it with them anymore.

"If anybody contacts me, if An Phoblacht contact me, if the UVF contact me, if the Irish Times contact me, if the Sunday Tribune contact me and look for my views on an issue that affects my members and the national interest, I do not discriminate who I write for."

Ogle appears to take the view that advocating his union's position in this fashion is particularly important because the media has consistently failed to explain the issues facing the Irish electricity market.

"I don't understand why they can't explain simple issues to their readers. For instance, in 2000, the government told consumers that they would drive down energy prices by introducing competition and seven years on, they have increased electricity prices by 67% and certainly for household consumers, there is not one ounce of competition in the market, " he said.

According to Ogle, this demonstrates the failings of the government's energy policy, which he said seemed to be based on an obsession with attracting competition rather than lowering electricity prices.

"Competitors in 2000 looked at the Irish electricity market and they said 'this market now has the third-lowest prices in Europe, there's not a lot of money there for me', " he says.

"The government then stepped in with 67% increases and they're intent to continue.

They will drive up prices to attract competition.

"From the government's point of view, competition is the goal, not security of supply and not cheap electricity."

However, he said that the union's objections to the white-paper plans, particularly those concerning the government's plans for the transmission network, were not about protecting a state monopoly from competition.

"That's not true. There is no monopoly in relation to power generation in this country.

ESB, in the next 12 months, will be down to 40% market share in generation. A monopoly is 100%. Power generation is an open market, where anyone can come in and build a power station."

Ogle conceded, however, that the ESB had a monopoly in electricity transmission and distribution but he said that this was down to its competitors.

"The Viridians and Airtricities of this world don't particularly want to go to the expense of building a network.

"The state has, since its foundation, decided to build an electricity infrastructure. It is an entirely valid for any state to own an infrastructure in the national interest. In fact to do otherwise is to leave the supply of a key commodity, electricity, at the discretion of the private sector. To me, that's not in the national interest."

When it was put to him that the government's proposals merely involved transferring assets from one state company to another, Ogle responded that the unions were opposed to the move because it wouldn't achieve any of the government's policy goals and was merely designed to satisfy private companies.

"Minister Dempsey is proposing this change because of submissions following his green paper from various parties asking him to do so.

"Of course, they did. Because the ESB is viewed by the competition as a strong competitor.

"If some of the private companies were as well run as the ESB, they mightn't be as reluctant to enter the market, " he said.

"If I was a competitor, I'd be sending lots of submissions looking to have my strongest competitor broken up. Lots of submissions, lots of papers.

"What your readers need to understand is that the reason why the ESB is being broken up is as a sop to competition, which will damage consumers."

Ogle said that the unions were determined not to implement the white paper as it stood.

"If they decide to implement this paper, then the minister will be in breach of his agreements with us, the ESB will be putting themselves in breach of their agreements with us and then we will have look into that, " he said.

When asked about whether this action could involve blackouts, he responded: "In the last resort, yes." Typically, however, Ogle is untroubled by the prospect that such action in pursuit of his members could have on the public.

"Tell me an industrial dispute that has public support. The thing about consumers is they're all very up close and personal to their own issues, be they journalists, train drivers or workers in the ESB, so they can always see a rationale.

"But when it's somebody else, they're unable to translate that thinking."

CV BRENDAN OGLE

Age: 40

Family: Married soon after joining Irish Rail and father of two children

Background: 2004 . . . Present: ATGWU Regional Organiser for ESB; 1999 . . . 2004: head of ILDA (part of ATGWU since 2001); 1991 . . . 2004: locomotive driver, Iarnrod Eireann

Interests: Sport, particularly Gaelic football (he supports his home county, Louth) and hurling. Also a Celtic supporter who travels as often as possible to games in Scotland and Europe