AS INTERVIEWS go, there is nothing so boring as talking to an indie rock band who don't really have much to say, don't really have much to rail against, don't really have much to define them. Ash are one of those bands. Everyone knows them, or has heard of them, but most have no clearly defined idea of who they are.

Yet among the Downpatrick boys' five previous studio albums, two of which achieved No 1 status in Britain, there are a number of songs we all know. Like 'Oh Yeah' from their biggest album, 1996's 1977, or 'Shining Light' from 2001's comeback album Free All Angels.

Last week when Ash played an intimate gig in Dublin to showcase songs from their new album, Twilight Of The Innocents, there was plenty of humming along to the emotional powerpop they are so good at. But something was missing; what is the secret ingredient they seem so close to having?

Ash hadn't played their own headline show in Ireland for about three years. Bassist Mark Hamilton and frontman Tim Wheeler have lived in New York since mid2005, while drummer Rick McMurray lives in Edinburgh. The band, clearly not short of a penny, have a studio in Manhattan where the Wu Tang Clan recorded their debut album. "It's really f***ing cool having it, " says Wheeler over lunch the day after the show.

Wheeler is extremely friendly and polite and I feel a little guilty when a) I realise his answers are dull and b) it strikes me that he looks an awful lot like James Blunt.

But we press on. Wheeler is frustrated because Twilight Of The Innocents has been ready since January but has yet to be released.

"It's torture. . . we've been sitting around for months wondering why the world isn't going mad about it but it's not even out there yet."

It's their first as a trio again, Charlotte Hatherley having left the band after nine years when their 2005 album Meltdown failed to set the world on fire. Wheeler describes Hatherley's subsequent solo material as "adventurous and arty and cool" but they haven't spoken in over a year. As the band's songwriter and guitarist Wheeler takes a lot on his slight shoulders. He reads the odd book on songwriting and finds it reassuring that it is as difficult for his peers as it is for him. Hearing that Badly Drawn Boy recently scrapped an entire album worth of songs makes him feel better. "You always want to hear when people scrap an album. We had three or four tracks that we scrapped but we kept the actual songs."

Wheeler is happier talking about music in general than his own band. Lately he has been listening to glam rock "no-hit wonders" from the mid-1970s and he keeps abreast of new music such as Klaxons, The Gossip, Amy Winehouse and We Are Scientists.

But as a 1980s kid metal is his true love. Most of our interview is spent reminiscing about the great metal gigs we attended. Wheeler's first was Bon Jovi; one of his greatest influences as a guitarist was Thin Lizzy's Brian Robertson "with a bit of Iron Maiden thrown in".

Like a lot of metal fans Wheeler has discovered a lot of the best '80s music comparatively late in life. He has been exploring the likes of Magazine, the Cure and Echo and the Bunnymen lately.

These new influences are apparent on the album. "We wanted a return to our older songwriting style but we also wanted to do some things differently too, " says Wheeler.

"The songs are actually quite diverse - everything's got quite a different style. There are little twists of weirdness on every song."

He's right. The unmistakably upbeat density of the Ash template is there but there are all sorts of dramatic flourishes, Smithsonian jangles, Musean synths, that you can hear after a few listens. "We tried some stuff that would never be an Ash song before, " he continues. "I would never have taken this approach before, would never have known it even existed."

One constant is Wheeler's ability to juxtapose life-affirming melodies with personal lyrics. "I can't help writing pop melodies, " he says. "I don't like dirgy stuff. . ."

One song, 'End of the World', was a cathartic process for the 30-yearold. "My only way of talking about that is to write it and get a lot of feelings out of your system. . . It's weird because I'm a very private person but when you turn it into art it becomes a bit of therapy for me. . . and for everyone else."

'Twilight Of The Innocents' is out on 29 June. Ash play Marlay Park with the Kaiser Chiefs on 26 August