ANOTHER European campaign brings the usual talk of measuring progress along with whispers of cavorting in group stages saving the game here. If Shelbourne and Cork City raised expectations in recent years, then their shortcomings and subsequent break-ups also gave an idea of what's needed to take another leap. How tough is it for the smaller guys to creep through to where the big money is? Well, it's John McClane tough.

Only two teams have managed to navigate their way from the first qualifying round to the group stages . . .Liverpool the year after they won it but didn't qualify and Artmedia Bratislava . . . and in truth, the odds are stacked against it in a fairly deliberate way. Anyhow, Irish clubs have got the hang of the first round, seeing off KR Reykjavik and Apollon Limassol in recent times . . . and then the second qualifier brings along a pretty decent outfit with a few regular internationals, a Red Star Belgrade or a Steaua Bucharest.

The third round is generally a mix of top names (Liverpool, Valencia, Sevilla) and clubs with recent Champions League experience (Werder Bremen, Levski Sofia, Besiktas) to ward off any aspirations of going further. From that starting point, Derry City have hit good and bad spots with their draw.

An enduring trip to Armenia for Pyunik Yerevan in round one, a team choc full of internationals in a remote setting. Get through that and they've Ukraine's Shakhtar Donetsk, who only lost twice in a group that contained Roma, Valencia and Olympiacos last season. The only sweetener is the fact that Shakhtar will be seeded for the round three draw, so a win for Derry would see them avoid most of the bigger guns and drag up the slim possibility of a handy draw. Still, a tough ask and fairly unlikely.

Ditto for the UEFA Cup where Irish clubs have had fingertips on the group stages three years in a row but came up short on their travels against Lille, Slavia Prague and Paris St Germain.

Of the newbies who've done the deed in recent years, FC Thun (from a small town in Switzerland) were the most Irish-like with their tiny budget but had a few not-bad Brazilians on their books and were fortunate to draw a Swedish side in round three. Levski Sofia became Bulgaria's first entrants last year, only having to see off the Georgian champions and then catching a break by facing a very average Chievo.

The difference is pretty stark between making it and not. Levski were handed 5.5million last week for losing six games in the group stages last season. Cork City earned 360,000 from UEFA from their two qualifying rounds, not an amount League of Ireland clubs will turn their noses up at, but not a club-changing figure either.

On the other hand, 5.5million is.

Chances are the breakthrough will come at the end of some very unsexy working up of coefficients rather than a spectacular front-door raid on some of Europe's finest.

Ireland are ranked 35 in European competition, behind the likes of Lithuania, Finland, Cyprus, Latvia and Bosnia-Herzegovina but are working their way in the right direction . . . last year they were 20th on the list. If the clubs can maintain healthy progression over the next year a target 25th on the list is realistic and would bring a bonus of skipping the first qualification round.

Results are needed for that to happen . . . at least two of the Irish reps putting a few wins together would be minimum.

Derry City have been a bit of a mess so far this season and have a tricky draw to get past the initial stage even. St Pat's are in horrid form and have a tough task against OB Odense of Denmark. Drogheda United look the best bet to take a couple of wins over San Marino's Libertas. The holy grail might be out of reach but the clues have to be snapped up along the way.

UEFA CHAMPIONS LEAGUE FIRST QUALIFYING ROUND

DERRY CITY v PYUNIK YEREVAN (Armenia)
Wednesday, Brandywell, 7.45 Live, RTE Two, 7.30

UEFA CUP FIRST QUALIFYING ROUND
SP LIBERTAS (San Marino) v DROGHEDA UNITED
Thursday, Serraville, 8.00

ST PAT'S ATHLETIC V OB ODENSE (Denmark)
Thursday, Richmond Park, 7.45