It is worth noting that primary school teachers for their training have 4 times as much time spent on religious training for teaching than say, science. A travesty, that.

Atheist Ireland are also having a campaign for people to be honest on the census when it comes out. There is one "Be Honest About Religion in the Irish Census" or something similar. In short, if you are religious, but don't follow the fundamentals of Catholicism, make that known on the census.

Catholicism has far more power in this country than it should, and there are far too many lapse Catholics putting down Catholic on the census that they have numbers to cite for their power. This needs to change.

That's unbelievable, it's shocking how the Catholic Church still holds so much power over our education system, a secular education system is so badly needed in this country. Children of all religions (& none) should have the right to an education in all schools without being discriminated against. Hats off to the child's father who removed him from the school and found somewhere more suitable, but it's a real shame that it had to come to that in the first place.

A brave father for standing up publicly and saying what most are too afraid to say for fear of earning their community's disapproval.

It's appalling that a school that claims that it "embraces and cherishes all children equally" thinks it is perfectly acceptable to expect non-Catholics to recite Catholic prayers twice daily. They're all equal, except some are more equal than others, right?

Yeah this is real abuse terrible stuff altogether no not really - more PC liberal lefty crap when there are more pressing issues in Ireland and the world today

Hi, I'd just like to say I agree with this person's stance. Indoctrination of any religion is not concomitant with a true education. This just reinforces the inordinate amount of influence that church has no right to, in this day and age, in society. Pressganging a child (especially one whose parents don't identify with the religion in question) into chanting their prayers is not inclusion, it's coercion. We should have put a stop to it in this country a long time ago.

I'm a teacher and a parent. Schools are in a bind, they have a departmentally mandated time slot in the curriculum for religion, or moral development in ET schools. They also have an integrated curriculum, it is impossible to separate out the various subjects in the way that it is done in secondary school. During a 30 minute English lesson, History might be touched on or SPHE or whatever. I know RC schools have a tradition of prayers in the morning and before meals, very difficult to ensure that a child who has opted out of RE is not inadvertently involved in, what to them, is just the whole class reciting "something". My school is of the Anglican tradition and less overwhelmingly religious, as most faith formation happens in Sunday School etc, but I know from the point of view of those who want no RE, it is not able to meet those needs properly. Until we sort out what kind of schooling most people want, I think both sides have to tolerate each other. Schools should do their best not to expose non religious children to their teaching, non religious families should accept that primary schools by their nature are holistic, integrated systems and their child will probably have to sit through some prayers. Not everything in school can be just right for everyone, all the time.

Take a 4th. class in any primary RC school. Do you think you can teach those children, about Roman Catholic Doctrine,Anglican doctrine, Jewish Doctrine, Buddhist Doctrine, Muslim Doctrine, Hindu Doctrine, Tseik Doctrine, Agnosticism, Atheism, and Humanism and a Holistic way of life? How many teachers are qualified to teach these subjects? I would love to hear an answer!

It's about time the status quo was challenged. If the school really embraced children with no religion they wouldn't put them in a position when they were coerced into saying Catholic prayers.

Why should we the taxpayers pay for this disgraceful system? Why should any religious institution be allowed to control over 90% of primary schools and impose discriminatory policies? As long as this situation remains we cannot claim to have a real public education system that serves all the citizens of this country. Keeping religion outside of school hours is the only option. If parents want religious instruction they should be allowed to sent their children to private schools not supported by the state or have it outside of school hours as happens in many countries. The present situation is unsustainable and non-Christian and non-religious children are those who will continue to suffer the most as long it remains the way it is.

B. O'Hara, what are you talking about?? 'Start your own schools'. You make it sound like Catholic parents are exclusively funding Catholic schools. The state funds and pays for state primary schools in this country. Parents in the state should be entitled not to have their children indoctrinated in a state primary school.

@B O'Hara
The church itself has acknowledged that the demographics of the country has changed significantly, and that it may not necessarily need to be involved in +90% of primary schools in Ireland.

Tracts of research undertaken, newspaper polls and the comments above all appear to indicate that a large number of people would prefer that religious instruction did not form part of the school day; I would have thought it was polite to respect that preference. Is that view/preference not worthy of consideration?

The church has taught millions of Irish children, me among them, but times have changed, and the provision of education must change with it.

Parents across Ireland *are* opening their own schools, with their own ethos - it's called Educate Together. Children learn the exact same curriculum, in a multi-demoninational, co-educational setting, and are informed about many religions, without instruction or faith formation.

However, the salient point in this story, is that the school (probably with good intentions) entered into an agreement about faith instruction with this family, and then failed to carry it out.

It is not about bashing the Catholic church, or anyone's faith, but about the failure of this school to abide by the agreement, and the general failure to provide parental choice in the provision of education.

I agree with the Dutch man here. The school principal says that they cater for children from a diverse set of faiths, and none - and yet they have Catholic prayer. The best way to cater for this diverse student body is to have no prayer at all, this way everyone is happy. This is in fact standard practice elsewhere in the developed world and is hardly surprising.

Congratulations to Martijn and family.
I find myself in a similar position, but my local school appears to be more understanding and accommodating.
I decided not to go to the Educate Together school in Sligo because it would make impossible to do any work, and because I believe it is better for my daughter to be educated in the local community. I hope not to be put in the same situation and having to withdraw her...

Religion should stay in the home or the church. It really is that simple.

this is one of the reasons why the unionists of northern ireland want nothing to do with your state. they see the catholic church as the de facto government

@Martina: You can make your views known through the National Parents' Council Primary survey on parent opinions on the patronage system of school management: http://www.npc.ie/npc/page.aspx?pagei... Irish schools are currently run by patron bodies, ie. the Catholic Church, Church of Ireland, Educate Together, etc. The government is due to review this system soon, so now it the time to speak up and say what you want!
The NPC Primary is the representative body for parents of primary school children in Ireland. Your school's parent association can join the NPC & pass on information to the parents in your school.
You can also support Educate Together: www.educatetogether.ie - they will also support you to start an ET school in your community - we did and I am so happy with it - every day I am grateful for the school and their ethos of respect for difference.

Does anyone else think that the two hour round trip a day will be more damaging than being made to say some prayers?

I was made to say prayers in school. It honestly had no lasting effect on me other than the fact that when I hear them now, they're vaguely familiar.

To all the posters above might I just say in the next census please indicate your honest beliefs http://www.atheist.ie/2011/01/be-hone... Maybe if the government didn’t think that there were so many Catholics we would have a secular education for our kids. Martijn thank you for highlighting this issue – lots of lip service done by the government and schools but the reality is so much more different.

Martina there is already a new campaign going:

http://www.teachdontpreach.ie/

Feel free to email me. I am not part of that campaign but we could maybe do something.

The reason most schools are run by the Catholic Church, is because they set them up. It you don't like it, by all means do something about it. Set up your own educate together school, or join the school board of an existing school and campaign for it to change. It can happen.
On a separate note, people suggesting that the only way to serve all communities is to ignore religion in the classroom are totally wring, that fails to serve those who have a faith just as much as the current system fails atheists and agnostic.
Just as some people here don't want their children taught about God, many Christians and followers of other faiths do not want their children indoctrinated with the agnostic idea that we cannot know God, the atheist idea that their is no god or the pc idea that there is no absolute Right and Wrong.
Yes of course you you have a right to hold these beliefs and to have schools which teach them, and I gladly support that right. But no you don't have the right to deny people of faith to have schools with a Christian or other faith ethos an education system.

@ Martha

With respect to schools there is the "Teach don't Preach" campaign http://www.teachdontpreach.ie/

Atheist Ireland campaign for the secularisation of the state. They "...promote an ethical, secular society where the State does not support or finance or give special treatment to any religion."
Find them at www.atheist.ie

@AnRuari
The state does not have the right to force one religion on all children which is currently happening. What's wrong will many types of religion being taught to children, just not enforcing the idea that only one of them is right upon them. Religion can be taught in school without instructing children, many against parents wishes, that one particular religion is correct. For that kids of parents of faith can get the 'truth' at home or at thier church on a Sunday.

My daughter will start school in September and I will be traveling for 1hr 20mins every day in order to get her to the nearest Educate Together National School. This story just confirms for me that I have made the right decision.

The government allow the church to hang in there, the lot that misrule the country are church goers, what the blessed fadder says is law...old mac in the feeners, says her judgement & all her learning were influenced by the church (bigots) in the north...hence no condemnation of the abuse scandals. what a shower of s... in our country influencing & implementing policy at every juncture. The church & FF & FG, would say they are teaching facts, the RC is right, no debate there, that Mohammed might have got his leg in the door first for them is unthinkable...just look at the churches on Sundays all those td's senators..civil servants, have to go to mass to atone for their sins, for the s....they inflict on us everyday, Joe soap is farming, & his comrades are at their work too. Maybe just maybe...the current leaving cert group might bolt & take us away from this awful chaos. Dont expect anything from FG, they are just as bad, our only hope is that the Shinners hold the balance of power.

All these absurd comments: We do have separation of church and state!

I may be young but the fact of the matter is;

90% of schools in Ireland are Catholic: they put the money and the resources into these properties when the state did not. The Irish State has only recently been able to start a mass building programme of schools.

If parents really want their kids to be educated in multidenominational schools, then I suggest they put up the money to buy these properties off Catholic Church.

Either put up or shut up I say!